Harry Things: Will Byers & Harry Potter

0:22 Music. Hey y'all, and welcome back to Camp Nowhere, a Stranger Things podcast. My name is Lauren. And I'm Joel, thank you all so much for joining us as we process all things Stranger Things. We are in a miniseries called Hairy Things, where for the next few episodes we'll be doing a deep dive on the parallels and contrast between Harry Potter and Stranger Things. For this episode, we are focusing on Will Byers and Harry Potter and so because of that, spoiler alert, if you have not seen Stranger Things and Harry Potter in their entireties, please do so before listening to us.

1:01 You have been warned. Yes, thank you for that warning, Joel. So we can dive into our first segment here taking a look at the back stories of our protagonists. I can focus on Will buyers. He was born on March 22nd, 1971 to Joyce and Lonnie Byers and he is the younger brother to Jonathan Byers and they live in Hawkins, Indiana. His father Lonnie frequently like bullied his own son. He would call him weak. He he would call him different homophobic slurs. Due to Will's sensitive artistic nature, he and his brother Jonathan built a Fort lovingly known as Castle Byers.

1:51 It's kind of a safe space for them, like an Oasis in the midst of their difficult home life. He is a part of a tight knit group with Mike Wheeler, Lucas Sinclair and Dustin Henderson, with Mike being his closest friend. Should also mention his parents got divorced. Yeah. Lonnie left and moved to I think Indianapolis. And so Joyce raised her, was raising her sons on her own, then moving specifically to look at November 6th, 1983. That's a very significant date. And the universe of Stranger Things.

2:32 That's the day Will was abducted by a Demogorgon, which we now know was due to Vecna. Like Vecna orchestrated that plan while he was on his bike going home from AD and D gaming session at Mike's house. And then he survived for I think he was about a week in the Upside Down through hiding. He communicated with Joyce through like electrical signals, like through Christmas lights and lamps and the radio. And after being rescued, he wasn't normal anymore. Like he survived, but he suffered from PTSD.

3:15 We now have PSTD, by the way, post Stranger Things depression and he had a persistent subconscious connection to this hive mind of the Upside Down. So that's just a little bit about Will. We'll learn more about him as we go along through the episode. Do you want to hit us up with some info on Harry Potter? Why? Sure. So Harry Potter was born on July 31st, 1980 to James and Lily Potter in London, England. On Halloween 1981, Voldemort murdered Harry's parents in Godric's Hollow. When Voldemort attempted to kill baby Harry as well, the curse backfired due to his mother's sacrifice destroying Voldemort's body and making Harry famous throughout the wizarding world.

4:04 Harry spent 10 years living with his muggle, which it means non magical Aunt Petunia, Uncle Vernon, and cousin Dudley Dursley who hid his magical roots. On his 11th birthday, Rubius Hagrid informed Harry he was a wizard and was invited to attend Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Harry was targeted by Voldemort because of the prophecy predicting a child born at the end of July possessed the power to defeat the Dark Lord. He was left with a lightning bolt scar on his forehead that acts as a connection to Voldemort.

4:43 And so now that we've got those backstories established, let's move to the next segment about their parallels. Yes, OK. So first, there's a psychic connection to the villain. So like Harry with Voldemort, Will has a psychic link to Vecna and the Mind Flayer, allowing him to sense their presence and even spy on them. Harry's scar hurts whenever Voldemort is nearby or when Voldemort is like looking into Harry's mind. Similarly, Will can sense the hive mind and Vecna through his neck, so they have both have that connection to their respective villains.

5:28 There's also visions and shared thoughts. So Will's visions of the Upside Down and ability to hear Vecna's voice mirror Harry's mental connection to Voldemort, Particularly with Aquamancy, which is using magic to close one's mind off to allowing others to read it. And that took place in the Order of the Phoenix or the fifth Harry Potter movie. And then there's this idea of the power of love and friendship. Both characters are protected by strong emotional bonds with their friends and their families, which helped them resist the mental control or yeah of their antagonists.

6:14 Some more parallels. They're roughly the same age. Will was 12 and Harry was 11 when their lives were changed forever. They both have a Chosen One kind of archetype, so both are reluctant heroes that are forced into a central and dangerous role, and they frequently suffer for the sake of others in that role. There's also the idea that both of them have served as a sort of vessel. Both characters contain a piece of their nemesis within them, making them integral to the villains survival and power.

6:55 In Harry Potter, it's explained how Harry's link to Voldemort is broken. Harry had to sacrifice himself in order to destroy the Horcrux inside of him. But in Stranger Things, we don't seem to ever really find out how or even if Will's link to Becna was broken in Season 5. Yeah, that's a really good point. I'm glad you brought that up. We we didn't really get to figure out how that link was broken. Bit of a miss, but that's OK. Now we can move on into our next segment, the character differences. So both Harry and Will are targeted.

7:35 We know that Harry is targeted by Voldemort specifically because Voldemort can't stand that Harry escaped his attempt at murdering him, as well as the fact that the prophecy about a child born at the end of July having the power to defeat him like Voldemort assumed that that was going to be about Harry. But we never actually learn why. Will was specifically targeted by Vecna. It seemed that he was targeted. We're not really sure why. I mean, I think all I can really gather is that it's because Vecna just wanted, like, weak children.

8:12 Yeah, I think for his purposes. And so I don't think it would. It wasn't like Voldemort was looking specifically for Harry Potter like Becna was. I think Becna was just kind of looking for anyone who really fit the bill. Yeah. And will just happen to be there. Yeah, yeah. OK. And then there's their, you know, personalities and attitudes. So Harry Potter's generally characterized by bravery, impulsiveness at times. Sometimes he had a hot temper or was arrogant. He could be described as a jock, being a seeker on the Quidditch team.

8:52 And he tends to meet challenges with direct action, like he is typically, like, assertive. And unlike a leader, Will Byers is defined as shy, sensitive, artistic and gentle. He would probably be considered more passive and introspective, carrying, gosh, the emotional trauma of his experiences internally, often choosing to withdraw rather than lash out. Yeah. Yeah, Another difference we found is their Achilles heels. So they're different weaknesses. Harry's weakness is in his saving people complex where he has this strong, sometimes self-righteous kind of moral compass.

9:47 And because of that, he can wrestle with pride and arrogant arrogance because of of his being chosen being the chosen 1 status. Hey, she's only interested in you because she thinks you're the chosen 1. But I am the. Chosen one. Hey, sorry. He's also the winner of the Tri Wizard Tournament, youngest Quidditch seeker in a century at Hogwarts, etcetera, etcetera. Will embodies a sort of different strength. It's more of a quiet strength. He's often considered the emotional heart of his group. He endures pain without becoming cruel himself, but his weakness is that he normally responds to those things in fear and being timid.

10:35 So rather than acting arrogantly or brashly like Harry, might, Will may withdraw and keep things hidden and wrestles with his identity. And the school bullies even refer to him as like a freak or even a fairy. Yeah, so then there's also trauma and fear. So how they process and respond to their respective traumas is different, we would say. So Harry experiences intense early trauma of losing his parents. I mean, before he can even like speak, you know, but he's thrust into a world where he becomes famous, often having to fight, which helps him process his trauma through action and heroism.

11:30 He is fiercely protective of his found family. Will suffers from severe PTSD like we mentioned earlier, from being trapped in the Upside Down and possessed by the mind flare, causing him to often feel out of place even after he returned home. His fear is more psychological and he struggles with feeling abandoned or or left behind emotionally. He often uses like drawings and paintings to process his experiences and feelings. And so, yeah, we can share a clip of him having an exchange with his brother Jonathan.

12:16 What are you working on, Zombie boy? Who's zombie boy?

12:24 Me. Did someone call you that? Hey, you can talk to me, you know that, right? Whatever happened? Well, come on, talk to me. Stop. Treating me like that, well, like what everyone else does, like there's something wrong with me. What are you talking about? Mom. Dustin, Lucas, everyone, they'll treat me like I'm going to break, like I'm a baby, like I can't handle things on my own. It doesn't help. It just makes me feel like more of a freak. You're not a freak, Yeah. I am. I am. I love that that's such a heart to heart moment for Jonathan and Will to connect as brothers and for Jonathan to go on and explain that basically it's like better to be considered a freak than to be normal because who wants to be normal?

13:19 Like normal is boring. So I hope that that at least gave Will a little bit more confidence in who he is. So then, while they both carry the burden of their respective evils, Harry seems to do that with wits, physical strength, skills, and magic, while Will does so with his art and his heart. Not to be too cheesy, but. Yeah, Then on to the next segment, character strengths and weaknesses. So some key strengths, starting with Harry, his bravery and willpower. He's very resilient. He is both mentally and physically strong, often persevering in intense pain.

14:07 He proves himself to be a leader and even mentors his peers and training them to become Dumbledore's Army. Is it true you can produce Patronus Chan? Yes, I've seen it. Blow me, Harry, I didn't know you. Could do that and he killed a basilisk with the sword in Dumbledore's office. It's true. 3rd year he fought off about 100 dementors at once. And last year he really did fight off you know who in the flesh.

14:41 Look. It all sounds great when you say it like that, but the truth is most of that was just luck. I didn't know what I was doing half the time. I nearly always had help. He's. Just being modest. Armani, I'm not facing this stuff in real Life is not like school. In school, if you make a mistake, you can just try again tomorrow. But out there, when you're a second away from being murdered or watching a friend die right before your eyes, you don't know what that's like.

15:22 You're right, Harry, We don't. That's why we need your help. Because if we're going to have any chance of beating Voldemort.

15:34 He's really back. Harry is also deeply loyal to his friends and fiercely protective of them, and he's also got quick reflexes that benefits him. On the Quidditch team. He's an excellent flyer and fast thinker for Will, he shows extreme resilience and endurance because he somehow survives nearly two weeks in that upside down, toxic interdimensional environment. And I mean, it's crazy because he was only 12 and you're a 12 year old boy in some otherworldly dimension and he survives. And so that shows that he like has some wits about how to survive in an environment like that.

16:28 He's endured a lot of just intense trauma, including possession, but he's able to endure that without being cruel. And so here's just a clip with him talking with his mother, Joyce. These episodes that you're having, I think Doctor Owens is wrong. I think they're real. But but I can't help you if I don't know what's going on. So you have to talk to me. Please, no more secrets, OK? OK. Did you see this thing again on the field? Yes. What? What is it?

17:12 I don't know, it's almost more like a feeling. Like the one you had that night at the the arcade. Yes. What does it want? I don't know, came for me. And I tried. I didn't try to make you go away, but you got me well. What does that mean? I felt it everywhere. I just want this to be all. It's OK. It's OK. Will's often shown to have empathy and like high emotional intelligence. He is deeply compassionate and loyal and shows unconditional love to his friends and family. He's also strategic, so kind of going back to how he was able to endure and that in the Upside Down, he's shown to be resourceful.

18:16 He's capable of using his artistic skills to map the tunnels, to map the Spire thing that we see in season 5. Like his art skills come in to play. They they're really helpful multiple times for the party. Yes. OK, so some key weaknesses for Harry. He struggles with impulsivity and rashness. Sometimes he decisively acts without thinking, which can lead him and those surrounding him into dangerous situations. He's also just frequently prone to outbursts, sulking, sometimes not knowing the best way to go about communicating his emotions.

19:02 So I guess just emotional regulation can be a struggle. And then there's a disregard for authority or the rules. At times. His mistrust of authority figures can lead him to choose to ignore advice and important safety warnings, I would say. And then for Will, his past experiences have left him with the PTSD he's he's been emotionally fragile, at times, prone to intense anxiety, there's codependency and a fear of being alone. So Will relies heavily on others in order to feel stable, particularly his best friend Mike Wheeler, which has led him to feeling isolated and jealous as his friends matured and eventually moved on to having romantic relationships and then the tendency towards submissiveness and earlier seasons.

20:02 Will rarely challenged authority or took the lead, often following the plans of others in order to maybe avoid conflict. Yeah, yeah. And so for this next segment, we'll talk about how all these characters share some connections to King Jesus. All three are portrayed as suffering, self giving, quote UN quote, chosen figures whose pain becomes the means of protecting or redeeming others. But Jesus is presented in Scripture as the unique and sinless savior whose sacrifice and resurrection actually defeat sin and death rather than just symbolize it.

20:48 So point #1 the idea of them being chosen and set apart. So Harry is the chosen one. He's marked by a prophecy. Will is singled out as the first kid taken into the Upside Down and now has this unique connection to the Mind Flayer, which then becomes essential part of the conflict with Becna. Jesus is the promised Messiah. He set apart from before the foundation of the world and foretold in Scripture as the one who would save his people from their sins. Yes, yes. And then there's suffering, possession and bearing evil.

21:29 So, Harry. He carries a piece of Voldemort's soul within himself, which links him to evil and causes mental torment, visions, and vulnerability. Will is, like we've mentioned, literally possessed by the Upside Down's powers via the mind flare he's used as a spy. He suffers ongoing pain and alienation because of this spiritual infection of Source. Jesus bears the sins of the world on the cross, becoming a curse for us and taking on the penalty of sin, though he remains personally sinless. So in all three, the character's body becomes the battleground where evil is carried and ultimately confronted.

22:16 Yeah, for a point #3 there's the self giving, sacrificial love, and the willingness to die. Harry walks into the Forbidden Forest ready to let Voldemort kill him, really offering his life so that others like his friends and the rest of those at Hogwarts might live and be protected. Will repeatedly puts himself in danger by using his connection to the Upside Down in order to help the group, allowing himself to be used as a kind of radar or conduit, even though it often causes him physical and emotional pain.

22:55 Jesus willingly goes to the cross, giving his life while we were still sinners. The ultimate act of sacrificial agape love for enemies as well as friends. Harry and Will echo aspects of cruciform love, like risking themselves to help others, though they mainly suffer for those they already love. But a key thing that sets Jesus apart is that Jesus died for the ungodly and for his enemies. Yeah, and that used to include us, too. Yeah. OK. And then there's point number #4 death, resurrection, and protective power.

23:34 So Harry boldly, like he's, you know, he's decisive. He walks into death, and it results in a kind of death and return. So his sacrificial act places a protective power over everyone on the battlefield, much like his mother's earlier sacrifice protected him. It's. Yeah. He knew that he was going to have to die in order to protect and save the people that he loves. And it's interesting, Like the stone that he used to bring him back is called the Resurrection stone, and then Will is treated as dead and then brought back from the upside down later.

24:16 His deliverance from possession is a kind of exorcistic liberation that allows the community to be saved in the town preserved. Jesus truly dies and then is bodily raised three days later. His resurrection is the decisive victory over sin and death and becomes the basis for believers hope and new life for all who would place their faith in Him. And then Harry and Will's resurrections. This is just important to note. They function as narrative signs. The evil can be pushed back, but Jesus's resurrection in Christian theology is the real once and for all defeat of death itself.

25:00 Point #5 the idea of community, of Kingdom, and like an ongoing presence. So Harry's victory leads to the restoration of the wizarding world. He lives on as a humble but scarred figure whose story shapes the next generation. Will's ongoing connection to the Upside Down becomes a continuing sensitivity that helps the group discern the enemy's movements as they fight together. Jesus sends his Spirit and calls the community, the church, to share in his victory and continue his mission fighting spiritual evil together with God's armor and presence.

25:44 So the parallels lie in their roles as chosen suffering figures whose self giving and yeah, encounter with death secures protection or deliverance for others, while the key difference is that Harry and Will are symbolic, flawed echoes of a pattern that Christians believe finds its full, historical and perfect fulfillment only in Jesus. Yes, Amen. OK. So for this last segment here, we decided we would like to do a lightning scar round. So I'm going to ask Joel kind of some rapid fire opinion based questions and just for context for the listeners, Joel has not seen these questions, so he doesn't know what I will be asking him.

26:39 So you're getting his real authentic perspectives. Here we go. Buckle up, buttercup. Yes. OK. So first question Joel, who had the harder childhood, Harry kind of growing up under the stairs or will in the upside down? Oh, will Will in the upside down, he's running away from these monsters, things that we don't really know anything about because it's season 1. He then eventually he has in season 5 you see him like climb up a tree and have to jump away. When it's doing the flashback of what it was like when he was in the Upside Down, Yeah.

27:22 And then like he falls from the tree and is unconscious. And then while he's unconscious some weird otherworldly monster called Beckna puts the tube thing on him and yeah and like injects weird slime stuff that he up chucks at the end of season 1. And you're saying that's worse than having to stay away from your annoying relatives under a tiny little room under the stairs? To be fair, the Dursleys are just awful. They're awful, right? But I I say that Will and his interdimensional trauma, definitely.

28:06 That's a good answer. All right, Second question, which title is more metal? This one is in honor of our beloved Eddie Munson. Which title is more metal Zombie Boy or The Boy Who Lived? Zombie Boy. I would agree. Yeah, yeah, zombie boy is pretty metal. OK, who would survive longer in the others world, Will and Hogwarts or Harry and Hawkins? That's that's a hard one. I'm trying to picture Harry in the upside down. OK I know you're the one asking questions but I do have a question to help me think.

28:49 Does Harry get to keep the magic? Like can Harry use magic in the upside? Down, yes, because I mean Elle uses her powers in the upside down. That's true. OK so OK so here's the thing. If Will can use like Will can use Expelliarmus and other spells. No, he's not magical. Harry. Oh, I thought you said Will. Oh, did I? I. Don't know, maybe. Maybe. I'm not sure Harry. Harry is who I meant. If Harry is able to use, you know his spells like Expelliarmus and the upside down, then I would think that Will wouldn't be able to at Hogwarts because doesn't will have to have proximity.

29:35 Yes. So then Will can't use his powers right? So then is Will a muggle or is he a wizard? I don't know because if he's a muggle then Voldemort can just kill him immediately. So you all just got to witness Joel verbally processing that the correct answer is, in fact Harry and Hawkins. I would, yes. That is the point I was getting at. Yes. OK, next question, question #4 number four. OK, who would be more willing to sacrifice themselves, Will or Harry? That's a hard one man, but I have to choose one.

30:22 Choose the chosen. One choose the chosen. One not supposed to influence your answer. You're not supposed to, but I was thinking Harry. Because Harry. Yeah, because Harry. He literally did. He he did like he knew and he. Will did not. Yeah, like Harry knew that Voldemort and the other Death Eaters were there in the forest, and he just goes alone, like, fully expecting that he's going to die. Yeah, Will, does. Will even fear that he's gonna die in season 5. I mean a a little because of like how they were utilizing these like powers that he was siphoning from Vecna.

31:03 Like with the proximity thing, that does put him a little bit more at risk. Like if Vecna catches wind of what he's doing and could somehow use it against him. Yeah, I mean, that's true. But yeah, I mean, like what we talked about earlier, the connection, like severing that connection between Will and Beckna just apparently wasn't really a concern either by the writers or by the. Right, but it should have. Been it should have been, but the character Yeah, but like the characters didn't care. So when you know, like when L pushes Vecna onto the Spire and he's all and.

31:43 What was that? OK, I wish you all could see in his face. How do you? Spell. That I don't know. You can't. You can't. You can't. That was not on the screen. Expel the Armas. I hate it. I. Hate it. So whenever. Yeah, when L uses the force to yeah to push Vecna onto the Spire, so he's all dying and bleeding and stuff and the gang all goes into the mind flare beast thing to see Vecna dying. I don't think any of them ever say or seem to even think like Oh no, what's going to happen to Will? No. So no, yeah, I think I mean, yeah.

32:27 Just for context for you all too, you know, we talked about this on our first episode when we were kind of reviewing our thoughts on Season 5 and hits and misses of that. We, we shared I think during that episode that we fully went into Season 5 believing that if in order for Vecna to be defeated, Will was going to have to sacrifice himself in some way to break that connection. We weren't sure, like with like with Harry, there was a way for him, like we talked about to be resurrected. So we thought maybe it'll be something like that.

33:02 Like maybe Elle will use her powers to bring Will back to life just like she did for Max. And so we were very confused when Will was not put in a position where he would need to sacrifice himself in order to sever that connection. Yeah. Because that was always, that was a plot point for several seasons. How do we get the Vecna out of Will? They didn't call it Vecna at the time, but how do we get the Upside Down shadowy whatever out of Will? Right? And then his connection is gone and Will doesn't have to suffer anything actually.

33:42 Which is super strange because when Demogorgons would feel pain, Will would feel it, but then when Vecna feels pain, Will just doesn't. So yeah, not not a consistent theme. Yeah, totally. OK, so Harry is your final answer, Harry. All right, so question #5 #5 this is a really deep 1. You got to lock. In Oh Baby. Who has the worst haircut season one will or movie for Harry? Season 1 will final answer. OK, it was. Like there's. No, you don't even have to think about it. There's no contest like he is.

34:20 How would you describe that haircut style, Joel? It's, it's atrocious. Like it's it's. What is it called? Coconut head. Like, well, OK, yes, but also it's a bulk cut. Yeah, Yeah. Well, yes, because Coconut Head, yeah. So Will, I think it's just confirmed that Will is the ancestor of Coconut Head from Nets Declassified. Yeah, Yeah, the haircut is so incredibly bad. Yeah. Like, I think that our, yeah, our Constitution would, yeah, consider that cruel and unusual punishment. Probably. To give your child a coconut head haircut.

35:01 I know that is one thing we did not talk about in our episode Processing Season 5 that we should have mentioned is that thank goodness the Barber finally figured it out and they gave Will a better haircut for season 5. It's still not amazing, but like, significantly better than the rest of the show. That's probably the most significant off screen character progression we have seen is the character progression of Will's hairdresser. Plot twist, maybe this whole time it's because Joyce was giving him the haircuts and maybe like as he developed his friendship with Robin, she's she like swooped in there and was like, listen, bro, you got to stop having your mom cut your hair.

35:48 And and so maybe he just had to politely tell Joyce that he needs to go to to a Barber. And maybe that's what happened off screen. Or maybe that's why Vecna targeted Will like, this whole time, because it was his awful haircut. And Vecna's like, oh, yeah. Like, if he like, if this kid has this haircut, then he has to have low self esteem. And so I can, like, take him and shape him. Yeah, sorry. That was supposed to be more funny, but that was actually kind of sad. I was actually kind of sad. I'm sorry.

36:20 Yeah, I mean, it's OK. It fits along with the fact we've brought up Will's trauma how many times in this episode? This is true, but hey, Will turned out OK. He sure did. It's OK now. Yes, OK. Question number six. Number six. Who has the better spying ability will in season 5 seeing through the eyes of a demogorgon or Harry in film 5, experiencing a vision through the eyes of Voldemort snake Nagini I'm. A. Snake, snake. Slightly little sneaky snake. I would say will. Yeah, why Will? Well, OK, so one thing is, well, I mean, it's cool.

37:01 Like it's just cool to be able, like Demogorgens are this weird monster that we've been seeing throughout the whole show, and then we finally are able to see through their eyes. And so it's really cool. When Will does that in Season 5? Also, what's cool is that Will apparently is able to spy on them and control them. Yeah, that's really cool. Like from a distance. Right. And I don't think that Harry really had that. I don't think like he could like it's, it's like he was a part of that dream or nightmare.

37:34 He could see into what was happening, but I don't think he could have really intervened in that moment. Yeah, I don't think he had control over Nagini. Right, like when he saw them torturing Arthur Weasley, like, that was great that he saw that so that he could relay that information and and they could get Arthur the help that he needed. But I don't think Harry in that moment was able to actually do anything about it. Yeah. Yeah. Any other thoughts to that one? No, All right. Well, then the last question.

38:04 Question #7 #7 who would win in a fight? A fully possessed will or Harry with the Elder Wand. Harry with Elder Wand final answer. OK, why unpack that for us? Avada Cadavra final answer. No, he can't. Avada Cadavra. Wait, he can't. I can tell the people why. OK so yes, I forgot the Harry Potter lore. Avada Cadavra is one of the what do you call it? It's the. Killing Curse. Yeah, but it's part of like the forbidden spells. Something like that. The taboo spells and like, they're unlawful in the wizarding world.

38:44 But for Avada Kadaver, you can only do that. You can only cast that curse if you truly hate someone. Which, by the way, can we point out the biblical implications of that? That's what I was just thinking. It's like, can we point that out? That hate, the connection between hatred and murder? Sounds like Sermon on the Mount. Yeah, yeah. Matthew 5, baby. But anyway, OK, so now I have to reconsider. Yeah, because Harry isn't. He doesn't have full hatred in his heart and so. Yeah, OK, well then I'm just trying to think, what else can Harry do then?

39:25 Because Harry has the Elder Wand. It's the most powerful wand in the wizarding world. I. Mean he did use that what's it called septum sanctum something spell on Draco, because it was like a spell that was in the diary of the OR the textbook for the half blood Prince, which was was Snape and but that like he didn't know how he didn't know evil that that spell was how. Powerful how? Powerful it. Was and that's and. It caused Draco to what, nearly bleed out? And then thankfully, yeah, thankfully Snape came in and he like, it was his own spell, so he knew how to reverse it.

40:08 And he thankfully saved Draco. But yeah, I mean, using that would, I mean, that's a way to go about killing someone. Right, that's the thing. Or Crucio just inflicting pain, yeah. Yeah.

40:24 Yeah, that's a hard one. It's it's hard to because we don't see a whole lot of will actually like using the powers to kill or to fight. We see it in the sorcerer episode when he kills the Demogorgans. But then after that, I don't think we really see that. So I think I'm gonna have to go with Harry. Even though he can't just do the one kill, the one shot kill of auto Cadabra, he still has other spells that he could use and Harry having the elder one definitely gives him an edge. If Harry also can fly.

41:10 Yeah, well, I mean, I think will would be able to fly to like would be able to use psychic powers maybe. Maybe. Well, actually, do we see Vacna fly? I don't think we do. He can be like levitated. Yeah, we've. Never seen him fly, yeah. Like do, yeah. Yeah, OK. I think I'm going to go with Harry. If Harry didn't have the Elder Wand then I would reconsider. That's fair. Yeah. The elder one is the most powerful one in the world. And then I just want to mention, like, shout out to Harry for making a very wise choice because if you recall, toward the very end of the whole series, he he does have possession of the older one.

41:59 Yeah, but what does he choose to do with it? Do you remember? He chooses to. Does he break it and throw it in the? River, yeah, he breaks it and he just like chucks it, I don't know, into a quarry or something. Yeah, yeah. Which I think was very wise. He's like, you know what, I don't know if we need to have something this powerful just for anyone to find because what if it gets into the hands of the wrong person? Because. Sadly, yeah. It's one of those deals where if something that powerful, as long as that exists, there will always be war and greed over getting it, you know?

42:39 Totally. Yeah. Well, thank you for participating in the Lightning Scar round. The lightning scar round that wraps it up. Thank you all so much for listening. If you enjoyed listening, give us a review or rating on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Audible, Amazon, wherever you're listening as it helps us reach other listeners like you. Absolutely. So our next episode in this miniseries will be focusing on Doctor Martin Brenner, AKA Papa and Albus Dumbledore. If you have any thoughts about their similarities or differences, strengths or weaknesses, we'd love to hear from you.

43:18 You can contact us at [email protected] or on Instagram at our handle, Camp Nowhere Pod. Thank you all so much again and we will catch you on the next one. Bye bye. The.