"Material Girl" by Madonna - The Music of Stranger Things

0:21 Earth America. Indiana Hawkins, A growing patriotic Community and a shining example of the American Dream. Today, Hawkins is taking another step into the future with the brand new Star Court Mall.

0:42 Families, friends and of course teenagers can come together to shop, hang out, dine and enjoy. With retail options for every member of the family including The Gap, Walden Books and Sam Goody. Star Court Wall has it all.

1:15 And don't forget, a state-of-the-art food court is just an escalator right away featuring America's favorite place to cool down Scoops Ahoy Ice Cream shop. Hi Hi Ahoy. Star Court Mall is one of the finest shopping facilities in America and beyond. So come on down and remember, Star Court Mall has it all. Star Court is an all American subsidiary of Star Court Industries and International Enterprise. Well hey y'all and welcome back to Camp Nowhere, a Stranger Things podcast. My name is Joel. And my name is Lauren.

1:55 We are so thankful you're here to listen to us process all things Stranger Things. We are doing another miniseries called The Music of Stranger Things where we'll take a deep dive into some key songs that are featured in the show. For this episode, we're focusing on the song Material Girl by Madonna. Yes, and when we say deep dive, we mean a thorough song analysis, sharing lots of research we've done about the song itself, why it was written, as well as looking into the specific moments the song is used throughout the TV series.

2:30 Exactly why was it chosen for those specific moments? What kinds of emotional implications does it have in resonating with the audience, and how does it affect or advance the overall plot of the show with that in mind? Spoiler alert. If you haven't yet watched Stranger Things in its entirety seasons one through 5, be warned. We will be discussing spoilers. So now that you've been warned, go watch Stranger Things and then listen to Material Girl. So for the first segment here, we'll discuss who wrote the song, when they wrote it, and what was the historical and personal context of that.

3:05 So, Joel, can you kick us off? Fo SHO so Material Girl was written by Peter Brown and Robert Rands Rons Rands RANS in 1984 as a stand alone demo and it was released as a single on January 23rd of 85. The song was then recorded by Madonna for her second studio album, Like a Virgin, and produced by Nile Rogers. The song emerged in the in the middle of Madonna's rapid rise to pop superstardom, when Like A Version, which released November 12th of 84, was turning her into one of the biggest names in music.

3:48 In the broader cultural context. It's flashy consumerism fit the 80's pop moment, and the lyrics material world framing matched the era's obsession with money and image and status. It was written actually to be ironic and provocative, not as a straightforward endorsement of materialism. Here's a brief ET interview from 2010 where Madonna talks a bit about the song. The thing about Material Girl is that it's not meant to be taken literally. The thing about if you're a Material Girl, you're a girl with a sense of humor because it's, it was always meant in an ironic way.

4:27 A Material Girl cares about how she looks, but it doesn't run her life. So, you know, we have to have a sense of humor. So the lyrics were meant to play with the idea of a woman who chooses security, ambition and money over romance. Madonna later explained that the song's attitude matched her own career minded mindset in the mid 80s when she was rising fast and thinking a lot about ambition and image. There was also a misreading effect where many people took the title literally and turned it into Madonna's nickname, even though she said that the song was partly a critique of how people judge women in success.

5:10 Oof, the irony. Also, like, I wonder how she felt about that. Right. That being her nickname. Yeah, I. Don't know. I wonder. Yeah, Yeah. But yeah, for further context as well, I wanted to share some biographical info about Madonna. So Madonna, Louise, Veronica. I should have like thought about this, but Chickene, Chickene. How do you say your last name? I have. No idea. CICCONE Yeah. BROCCOLIN. Sorry, that's from daddy daycare. We're so sorry, Madonna. So yes, she was born on August 16th, 1958 in Bay City, MI and she grew up in the Detroit area suburbs of Pontiac and Avon Township, now Rochester Hills.

6:06 Madonna was raised in a large Catholic family as the third of six children. Her father was an engineer of Italian descent and her mother was of French Canadian descent. She lost her mother to breast cancer when she was only 5 years old, and then that, several biographies say, deeply shaped her drive and ambition. She later moved to New York City in 78 to pursue dance and ballet, and that path eventually LED her into music and into her solo pop career. Before she became a solo star though, she played and sang in bands like Breakfast Club and Emmy, and by 1981 she was already developing material that would lead to her debut solo recordings herself.

6:55 Titled debut album Madonna came out on July 27th of 83. It established her in pop music, though it was her next album, Like a Virgin that made her a huge mainstream star. The song Material Girl from that album peaked at #2 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart in March of 85. It definitely makes sense for it to be playing then during season 3 of Stranger Things, as that season took place during the summer of 85. So cool. The song would have still been pretty popular at that time. The number one spot was REO Speedwagons Can't Fight This Feeling, which is also utilized in Season 3.

7:38 It also hit #1 on the Billboard Hot Dance Club Songs chart, showing that it was especially strong in clubs, even though it missed number one on the pop chart. And Material Girl is Madonna's third most dream song out of her entire discography. It spent 17 weeks on the charts in the US. Wow. I can see why it topped dance club charts for sure. Like it's kind of difficult to listen to that song and not wanna, you know, dance a little bit. OK, so now we can discuss which particular season episode and scene where the song plays in Stranger Things and maybe why we think they chose to use it in that specific moment.

8:21 So the song is only used in Season 3, episode 2 entitled The Mallrats. It plays during the iconic shopping montage with Max and 11:00 at the Star Court Mall. For context, up to this point, 11 really only wore clothes that Hopper had for her at their cabin. So we're talking lots of flannel here. So she's a flannel girly up to this point. So Max wants to help 11 try to find her own sense of style to help her see that she doesn't have to just conform to Mike's and Hopper's personalities or maybe even their perceptions of her.

8:59 Do you like that? How do I know what I like you Just try things on until you find something that feels like you. Like me. Yeah. Not Hopper, Not Mike. You Earlier on in the episode, she assured her that there's more to life than just stupid boys. To set the scene, they start out in the gap. Stupid gap on every corner. They're trying on berets, jumper suits, skirts, and belts filled with lots of bright colors. They also try on different sunglasses and Max decides on a bright red. 111 ends up buying a bold black jumper suit that has various colorful shapes and patterns all over it.

9:51 Meanwhile, Mike, Lucas, and Will are scouring them all looking for an apologetic gift that Mike could give to 11. He's interested in a small teddy bear charm, so he asked the guy working there how much it would cost. Excuse me Sir, how much for this little teddy bear right here? 303 hundred. This is extra hilarious when just a little later on in the episode, we learned that Mike really only had like $3.50 to spend. And of course, that made us think of that one SpongeBob meme where Patrick Star is like, I have $3.

10:31 You're way too good at that. I am. We feel for Patrick right in this economy. OK, so then the boys also try to find Elle a perfume and Lucas accidentally sprays it in Mike's eyes. Rough day for Mike. The girls are bonding and having the time in their lives and Mike is desperately trying to find a way to keep 11 from breaking up with him. Max and 11:00 then run over to Flash Studios for a dress up photo shoot. Together they try on different frivolous outfits and strike different different poses, which is a nod to Madonna for sure.

11:11 Like Vogue, strike a pose. You know, something to note here is that these types of glamour shots, studios really didn't actually start popping up until around 1988 and then peaked in the mid 90s. So they weren't quite around yet when this season was set in the summer of 1985. But the scene still feels super fun and nostalgic. And afterward, they're in a shoe store called, I think it's Kauffman Shoes. And Max tries to help 11 learn how to walk in high heels. I don't know if anyone actually really enjoys walking in high heels.

11:45 Yeah, it doesn't look. They don't look comfy. They're not. They're really not. I'm not. I'm not a fan. 11. Yeah, well, 11 does. What I probably would do is she trips and falls, and then Max helps her up. The popular girls kind of give them a judgy look, and then they laugh it off. But then, near the Burger King, they hide behind a pillar and Elle uses her powers to make the popular groups Orange Julius Shakes explode all over themselves in front of the boy that they were flirting with. They Sprint past Mike, Lucas and Will without noticing them, and the scene ends with Will asking if the guys could play D&D now, to which once again they give a swift hard pass.

12:28 Oh poor Will. Yeah, he just wanted quality time with his friends and they were too busy trying to fix the problem they created with their girlfriends by lying. Yikes. And also just want to mention, I love that in the scene, Max and 11 laugh when the popular girls like give a judgy look, right, right, because they could have felt embarrassed or sad or ashamed, but they just laugh it off. And I think that's so fun. And if it's the scene, them having such a great time in the mall and their friendship just growing.

13:08 Yeah, well, there's they're really connecting so much that they're kind of oblivious to what all is going on around them. Like, they didn't even notice Mike an Will and Lucas were right there and they just like ran right past them because they are just kind of in their own little bubble right now, having a really sweet time And yeah, actually becoming friends 'cause prior to this, they weren't really all that close. Eleven kind of initially had given Max the cold shoulder like in Season 2. So it's really sweet that they are kind of breaking down those barriers.

13:41 They're friends, Yeah. OK, switching gears, Lauren, what was it like hearing Material Girl for the first time in the show and why do you think this song resonates with the audience? Man, it was incredibly nostalgic for me for sure. So just for context, when my younger sister Lindsay and I were kids, our aunt would play this song on CD and we'd get all dressed up. Like, play dress up, dance around, sing along. I just remember giggling a lot. I distinctly remember this song being one of my absolute favorites on our Madonna CD.

14:19 So when I hear it, I'm instantly taken back to kind of that carefreeness of my childhood, to a time when I really didn't have many worries. Honestly, I think that's why the song resonates so much with the audience. Like it's being played in a montage where Max and 11, kind of like what you mentioned, they're just letting loose temporarily, not really anxious about boys. Their friendship is blooming. They're just very present with one another. And that's how I felt listening to this song when I was younger.

14:49 We get glimpses of them just giggling, dressing up for the like, glamour shot, photo shoot, running around the mall like they've completely lost track of time. They don't even care that those, like you said, popular girls are judging them because they're confident in who they are, not worried about how those girls are perceiving them. And I just love that. So what about you, Joel? So yeah, so my brother and I did not dress up and like giggle and play around while listening to this. That wasn't something that we.

15:20 Did so you had a different child. Experience, yeah. Joel has one brother and I have two sisters, so definitely different vibes. Some different vibes for sure. So yeah, I mean, I had heard the song before. I feel like I say this for a long for a lot of the songs we do where it's just like I've heard this song before, I don't really know where. So like hearing it in Stranger Things wasn't the first time? No, you had heard it, OK. So I had heard it before, but it was just, I remember when I first heard it in the show that during that Maw montage scene, I felt myself just kind of nodding.

16:03 Just like, yes, this is a perfect choice. This is an excellent song choice to just capture the fun of what's going on. Once again, shout out Nora Felder, the music supervisor for the show 'cause She, she's, yeah, fantastic at her job, Yeah. It was just so fun seeing them have fun grow in their friendship while there's a secret underground flesh monster killing their neighbors, you know? Yeah, yeah. But like, that's again, one of the things I love about it is that Season 3, it's darker than people think about typically because it's you've got the fun 4th of July stuff going on.

16:44 You got the mall. Like, there are a lot of, like, fun, lighthearted things in there. But like, underlying that you have, like, rats that are exploding and fleshy monsters. And there's like, a lot of dark stuff, too. And so I love that this scene added some fun, lighthearted Comic Relief in the midst of, like, like, to kind of, yeah, distract from the horror temporarily. Yeah, and that is interesting because when I think of Season 3, I think of so many of the brighter moments 'cause you have the swimming pool, you have the 4th of July stuff, you've got the mall like there's.

17:23 It's a full on fun Midwestern summer. There's so many fun, bright moments, but when I thought about what else was happening during the season, I'm like, oh wow, I have to remember that at that point in the show, that was definitely the darkest season. It would get darker in Season 4 but Season 3 it got dork like we have to remember. The horror ramped up a whole level for sure. Oh, oh, yeah. Like you, you have to remember. Yeah, Like that. That was when. They were trying to attack Nancy and Jonathan.

17:56 That's literally what I was gonna say. That's exactly what I was. Gonna say like that, That was scary. It's almost like we're married. Right. Yeah, thinking the same thing, like that was the same season. I have to remember it. The same season that had the fun swimming pool, the 4th of July stuff, the mall montage also had this flesh monster chasing Nancy and Jonathan in the hospital, right? And I'm like, wow. But also the guys from the Hawkins Post like her boss and her, they were jerky Co worker.

18:30 Yeah, and that they were trying to kill them too. So they had the monster and those guys. Oh yeah, and when Nancy didn't Nancy like take some scissors or something to stabbed one of the guys and like they. I think did Jonathan have to do that? Or like with the fire extinguisher. Yeah, and Nancy used that. Yeah, like they they killed them, but then they dissolved into the fleshy goop and they fused together to be a weird flesh monster and the lights went out. It's like, Oh yeah, these are some really dark times.

19:03 So I appreciate Madonna and these other fun, yeah, fun songs that are playing to brighten the season some. Right. Yeah. And so great segue back to the song time for our next segment, Song instrumentalization and lyrics analysis. So as our resident music expert, hit us with what you got. Oh man, so yeah. So I think that the when you when you take the lyrics away, like we can just start with the instrumentalization that I think it's definitely communicating luxury and it sounds futuristic. You've got the 80s dance pop, you've got synthesizers.

19:50 It has a lowered 7th, which we talked about in should I stay or should I go? And so yeah, what I mean by lowered 7th is that the 7th scale degree in the song is lowered. So you have like the song is in C so like, yeah. So the the. Color is white for Joel. With a synesthesia with a nice synesthesia if if you care to know that. No, but I think real quick, quick detour. That's really cool because the song would seems white to you, which is just kind of plain, but yet it's being used in a scene with all these bright neon poppy colors, like in a mall.

20:34 But then like the song is just white. It's just really interesting to me. Yeah, it is interesting. Yeah. OK, back to the lowered 7. Oh, you're good. So the lowered 7. So the song is in C So if like this is the C roughly so then the lowered 7th degree is B flat. So like ba ba ba. And that instead of ba ba ba like CBC it's CB flat C ensuing. So like the the hook, the BA ba ba that BA note is the lowered 7th. And then like in the verses, she goes Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo. Like in the verse, I don't know the words at the moment, but but that higher note is AB flat.

21:26 It's that 7th, 7th lowered 7th scale degree. And so the reason I bring that up is because it does communicate brightness. It communicates peppiness. It's cheery, which is what it does for should I stay or should I go? We talked about in our previous episode where they have a they use that too, and it makes it a cheery song even though it's about not knowing what to do. Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, you got that. You've got the the robotic male background vocals. So I think it's during the bridge that there's the living in our material world.

22:14 Like they sing so straight that there's no vibrato. They just sing very straight. It's the same note as well. And there's no swing or anything. It's just very. Robotic and repetitive. It's robotic and repetitive, yes, it's also repetitive. And so I think that communicates a, it communicates that futuristic idea. It communicates materialism of like, maybe even trying to communicate this is where we're going. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's what I was how I interpret it. Like, we as a society are moving in this direction because of all the advancements that we're making even in the 80s.

22:57 And I mean, that's a whole separate discussion now that AI is becoming more and more prevalent. Yeah. And then Madonna also just does a vocal sound effect. Yeah, wait, real quick, something that made me think of. So this was in 1985, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Back to the Future also came out in 1985 and that movie is actually featured in season 3. But what I'm thinking about it is that in that movie, like we get a glimpse of what I guess what in the 80s at that time, they imagined that the future will look like.

23:37 And it does have, it's like got like flying hoverboards and like all this stuff. And so, yeah, like they really, they thought like, OK, techno technological advances, materialism can continue to grow. And I think also like bringing back to the synesthesia, it being white, at least for me is I think that could also be fitting because generally depictions of the future, like whether it's in Back to the Future or in SpongeBob or whatever, that it's normally monochrome. Like, it's not like the future often isn't depicted as this colorful place, but it's like all grey and.

24:21 So I need the listeners to understand that that Lauren's Vitamin Water, Vitamin Water is not sponsoring this episode, but Vitamin Water bottle just kind of like, I don't know, popped a little bit. Yeah, it's trying to match the energy of this song. Yeah, I don't know. It's very. Popping are we in the future? What is happening? I my response to him, I think immediately is like, are we? Are we about to get vected? Like what? What is happening? And I also need y'all to know that we probably won't include our like 15 second pause after that happened because we both just looked at each other in disbelief.

25:05 Well, also I think there was a little bit of fear, like I'm like praying. Lord Jesus, please help us. OK. Also, if Vitamin Water wanted to sponsor this episode, we wouldn't say we wouldn't say no. I have. $3 yeah. But yeah, just that the we're really, we're really trying to bring it back now, y'all. So yeah, I, I just mentioned it's like, well, I think the white color could be appropriate because it's more of a neutral color and a lot of depictions of the future are Gray, silver, just bland. Yeah.

25:52 So, yeah, also Madonna does like a vocal sound effect that I am not going to try to replicate. But if you listen to the song, you'll know it. I think it just happens during the interludes, like between the chorus and the verses, and it just adds energy. It's fun It yeah, it makes it more peppy. OK, but the lyrics, y'all. So we got to get into the lyrics. So on one level she's talking about someone who wants money and comfort and status. On another level, there's. There's levels. There's levels, there's layers.

26:32 Like an onion, I. Know right, we're peeling, I'm thinking. Of Shrek. Listen, I'm so sorry. This is how my mind works. Oh my. OK, so back to Madonna. OK, so on another level, it can sound like Madonna is sort of winking at the audience, like she's exaggerating the whole thing. And so it becomes more of a critique instead of just a straightforward I like to be materialistic kind of thing. So, yeah, like on the surface, the lyrics portray a woman who openly identifies as a Material Girl and only entertains men who give her luxury and status.

27:13 But the. Yeah. And then the chorus insists, you know, that we're living in a material world and I'm a Material Girl, which is interesting. It just kind of frames materialism as just this accepted reality, like it's just a given instead of, like, a moral failure. Yeah. The verses depict Madonna as this fickle woman turning away men who cannot afford to quote UN quote, pay her bills. I also just wanna talk about the music video. Yeah, that was helpful context. That was very helpful, and I'm sorry that we had not talked about that in our previous music episodes, right?

27:57 But I think that was really helpful. So, yeah, the music video, if you haven't watched it, I think it'd be helpful for you to watch it just so you understand how there's deeper levels to the song than just, I endorse materialism. So yeah, at the beginning of the song, or like before the song plays, she's talking on the phone about how a guy is trying to impress her with expensive gifts, but she talks about it in a way that's dismissive. Like, I don't care about this guy because he only wants to try to buy me nice stuff.

28:33 And throughout the song you have her wearing different, just luxurious fashion. And then there's all these men that are trying to fawn over her. But she just, I don't know, she moves around the set with the men, but she never ends up with any of them. Like she leaves them ultimately. And throughout the music video, I forgot to mention, when she's on the phone, there's a guy who's interested in her and it has like a expensive gift that he wants to give her. And he hears her talking about it and he realizes, like, oh, shoot, this isn't going to work.

29:18 So he just throws the gift away. Right. Yeah. And then later on in the video, he gives her a bouquet of flowers, but the flowers just respectfully don't look that great. Like they're just kind of, they just kind of look like what wildflowers or something like they're not roses. Well. It looks like he could have gone to the side of the highway and picked the flowers himself. And that, I think that's what happened, right? Yeah. Is that he just went and picked the flowers like he didn't get a fancy bouquet or anything.

29:50 And he gives it to her and she accepts it. And then at the end of the video, she gets in his pickup truck and we see we see them kissing at the end of the video. And so it shows her with a guy who doesn't seem to have as much money as all those other rich men that were fawning over her. And yet she chose him. And so, yeah, it's an interesting song because on the surface it instrumentally, it just sounds peppy and fun. And it can be tempting to just kind of dismiss it as, oh, this woman is just singing about wanting nice stuff.

30:38 But there's a deeper layer to it where she is actually like, it's actually a satire. Like it's there's irony to it where she is doing this not to be a role model, but to criticize how, like, how women are commodified and how society often conflates affluence with worth and how women. Yeah, especially like how women who are wealthy, like female wealthy celebrities maybe, like people may try to draw conclusions of her being a gold digger. So. Yeah. Or that she's trying to like use her desire ability to try to win rich men over and control them.

31:40 So that's just a brief little analysis there. And now it is time to move on to the lightning round. Oh baby, I know, right? I'm gonna ask Lauren a series of questions to get her honest reactions and opinions. And when I mean honest reactions and opinions, I mean she has not seen these questions. So this is gonna be her live answers. So it's time to buckle up for it #1 do you think the show used the song Material Girl more for nostalgia or storytelling? It's a fun question. It is a fun question. I mean, I honestly think there is a little bit of both because you can't deny like, OK, it's a little on the nose.

32:32 They're in a mall. There's a lot of different businesses selling a lot of different merchandise and they're the song is Material Girl. Like, you know, so on that on that level, like yes, there's storytelling there. It's like, OK, we're at a mall, material things, you know, they're shopping. But I would actually, I don't know. I think it's more nostalgia, at least at least how I experienced watching that scene. It unlocked that nostalgia that I brought up earlier for me of like, Oh my gosh, like me and my sister or my sister and I did that growing up, like dress up, take, take pictures, dance around, like, you know, to that song specifically.

33:18 And so I do think on some level it was kind of playing into just like, poppy, fun nostalgia and, you know, the purpose that we brought up earlier of, like, you got to have some fun lightheartedness to contrast the dark horror that's going on in the show. So yeah, I would say both, but maybe at least in my opinion, a little bit more nostalgia. Yeah. Yeah. OK. I would agree, yeah, with that, yeah #2 OK, which character on the show best embodies the Material Girl energy even outside of that Mama montage scene?

34:02 Oh, OK, I think I'm gonna go with. Oh, I'm like torn between Karen Wheeler and Nancy Wheeler, which is fun 'cause like, mother daughter. Yeah, I might. Oh, my gosh. I'm torn. OK, why I think Karen is because, like, she's always got her glass of wine, you know, she's always is like, making sure she's wearing whatever fashion is trendy and up to date, her hairstyles, always whatever is trendy. And yeah, so and you know, her, she had the new bathing suit that Billy complimented. Like, I do think, you know, Karen even was willing to marry Ted and we're we're led to believe that they're not maybe she's not really super deeply in love with him.

35:01 But what did Nancy say? Like, but he had a cushy job and, you know, white picket fence kind of deal. And so she married him. They settled down and started their nuclear family. So I'm tempted to say Karen, but why I kind of was thinking Nancy a little bit is just because when we get to see a glimpse of inside Nancy's room, you know, Robin's, she was like, oh, you have a Tom Cruise poster. And like, you know, and Nancy, yeah, I would say just that. Plus, she always wore like nice dresses. She like in Season 1 Barb's like, is that a new bra?

35:42 You know, like Nancy had like spent. She talked about how she spent all this time picking out the perfect outfit to impress Steve. And I'm like, maybe she got some of this. She's kind of learned behaviour from her mom. I don't know. But I think I'm gonna say Karen, final answer. Final answer. Yeah, that's a good answer. Yeah, thanks for letting me verbally process, of course. Yeah, that was good verbal processing. Yeah, and I'm really glad our Vitamin Water didn't just like, explode against. Yeah.

36:10 And, and I think briefly too, that Karen would be a good choice because I also think of the pool scene where I think, well, pool scenes, I think there's a few times where we see Karen with her girlfriends, like all in the like the chairs. Yeah, the pool chairs, and they're all you know. Waiting for Billy to emerge. Yeah, but they all have their hair dolled up. They've got their sunglasses, they've got their legs crossed, They have their book. Yeah, it's just. Yeah, that's very glamorous looking, yeah.

36:49 Yeah, well, and OK, one, well, there's there's, you know, a little bit they play into the stereotype of this type of energy where she's like taking a look durious bubble bath and has candles lit and she's like reading one of those Fabio, you know, like romance novels. And so I, I would say Karen. Yeah, yeah, solid choice #3 OK, where do you see echoes of this same Material Girl mindset in today's culture? Do you agree that we are living in a material world? And is this more or less true than it was in the 80s?

37:29 Oh, OK. A three in one.

37:34 Yeah, I, I think that it is more true now than even in the 80s.

37:45 Yeah. I'm curious if what your thoughts are on that. But I mean, yeah, I just think we're fed cultural messages. I I would say a lot that like the world exists to please you. Like whatever you know.

38:06 Like where do you see that? Where do I see that? Yeah, those. Messages today. Oh, today. Yeah, like you, you mentioned that we received those messages where like how do we? Oh, yeah. Like, you know, you're driving on the highway and you see it on billboards. You see it on ads that pop up when you're streaming or on YouTube. Like you see it, but you know, the I feel like on social media, like your algorithm can be impacted and then you see, you know, different videos that will pop up tailored toward basically feeding you this message that like you need to buy this next thing.

38:45 This will solve all your problems. You know, you know, you need to work really hard to make more money to achieve more so that you can get all these things you want because those things will make you happy. But you know, I think about like The Beatles, OK, they have the song Can't Buy me love. And I growing up like I that was a song I would have on repeat and I would that's really sweet. But I think about how I would try to really, you know, not that I'm saying, you know, The Beatles are truth or anything like that.

39:16 Definitely not. But it is sweet to think like money can't buy me Love is one of the lyrics of that song. It's, it's really true. Like God is love and you know, God can't be bought, you know, your salvation can't be earned. Like satisfaction won't ever be achieved in our own, by our own efforts or by, you know, receiving enough money or material things. And you don't get to take those things with you when you when you die, you know, And so, yeah, I would say it, it definitely existed in the 80s. It existed in biblical times.

39:53 It exists. It exists now, yeah. Yeah, cause 'cause idolatry has always, yeah, existed. Yeah, since. The fall. So it's like. Is it more or less like maybe I'm prone to say more just because like we've talked about in our, I think in our nostalgia episode, but like we have more access to share information, we have more technology, it's more widespread. And so on that level, these messages are being sent and received much more quickly and easily. And so I would think probably more now. Yeah, yeah. And just a like a related thought that I had like a few days ago was just thinking about that.

40:35 There will come a point in human history where there won't be anyone living who had there. There won't be anyone who had lived experience before smartphones or social media. Wow, Like it's. And that's just important because right now we have many people, us included, who have, yeah, who have lived before these different advances and. Oh yeah, I mean, I don't think I got a smartphone till I was like 20 years old, like a sophomore in college. And I think it's just important to reflect on the fact that this is still very new in terms of history and that this is just an unprecedented time of being able to share so much information so fast.

41:26 Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I would say yes, we are living in a material world because we're living, living in a sinful fallen world. And that's like, like you mentioned, it is a moral failure that, you know, materialism, our sinful flesh is going to crave and desire that. And there's like social media influencers that play into that. And, you know, CEOs of ad agencies, they know these things and they want to cater toward toward that like. Yeah, and it's not another thing that I just thought of is, you know, about the survey where Jen's ears are polled asking, like, what is your dream job?

42:12 Like, different generations are asked that what's the dream? Like what? What was the highest rated, like, job that Gen. Z ers want for a dream job? A social media influencer. Oh, really? They see influencers and they say I wanna do that. What and their motivation being? I mean they. Can make money fast. The, I mean, the survey didn't get into their motivations, but I mean, influencers are just known for having a lot of things. I mean, yeah, I this may be too simplistic to say, but I mean, are there any influencers that don't have money?

42:58 Wow. Yeah, probably not. Right. And it's interesting that people, especially younger people that are their minds are being, are are in more formative years that they see all of these people that live lives completely different from them, but they want to be like them anyway. Yeah. And it just creates this gap of what's attainable and what's not, you know? Yeah, I mean, I'll just share this too, you know, like, you know, I currently work in college ministry. And when I'll get into, you know, spiritual conversations and connecting with students on campus, one of the questions that I might ask is something like, what is your bucket list item?

43:45 Like what's one thing you want to do or accomplish before you die? And I'll be honest, over the last couple years, more, more and more frequently, the answer is some variation of I want to make a lot of money. Like I want to be able to make a lot of money and do what I want to do and go where I want to go. And so in that sense, like, yeah, we're living in a material world. Like, yeah. Those are some good answers. Well, thank you of. Course, and now we go to #4 If you had to swap Material Girl out and use a different 80s song for the montage scene in the mall, what song would you choose and why?

44:27 Oh, oh, oh, I love that. OK, OK, different 80s song. And I guess it would have to be 1985 or prior, like summer of 85 or prior. So OK, the the first one that comes to mind for me. And just like using Material Girl in that scene, this is also would be super on the nose, but it would be really fun. So you if you want to match that whole poppy, fun, upbeat kind of vibe. And you keep in mind that Max was like, there's more to life than just stupid boys. You know the song Cyndi Lauper Girls just want to have fun.

45:04 Yeah. I was wondering if you. Were going to do that that that's the first one that that would probably be my first vote. I could easily you could easily swap that with that scene if I had to pick something. Not that my second vote would probably be a song by Hall and Oates called You Make My Dreams Come True. I don't know if you know that one. Yeah. Super upbeat, really fun. I think it is prior to 1985 as well. So probably. But I think girls just want to have fun. Yeah. What is that what you were thinking?

45:40 I was thinking that, yeah, I was wondering if you were going to choose that. Yeah, yeah, good call, sweet. Yeah, OK #5 Do you think 11 was chasing status or belonging? Was she feeling societal pressure or was she experiencing creative expression? Yeah, like when they were shopping and all of that. Yeah, that's a good question. I guess, at least from my perspective when I was watching that for the first time, I interpreted it more as she wants a sense of belonging because context is she grew up pretty isolated, right?

46:25 And basically what felt like a prison, but in a Hawkins lab under the thumb of Doctor Brenner. She didn't get to have a normal childhood. She doesn't know who her real parents are. And so I don't know if she felt a sense of belonging. She didn't real hat really have healthy attachment styles or bonding because of her childhood. So I think, you know, part of why we love Stranger things so much, yes, is because of the the story itself, but it also has to do with the friendships that are formed. Like those bonds are super sweet.

47:07 So I think she was, I would say for your first question, she wants belonging and she wanted a there's like something really sweet and powerful about female friendship. Like speaking coming from someone who is female like that is so important. And she up to this point has not had that. She doesn't have, I mean, she has Collie was like a sister for her, but she was so little whenever she was with Collie. And that was only for a very short time. And then they were like separated for a really long time.

47:36 So she didn't get to really experience female friendship. Now she has Max in her life, they and they're bonding and like you can tell it means the world to her. So that and then for your second question, I I think it was maybe more creative expression, you know, like Max encouraging her. It's not Hopper, it's not Mike. It's you like what feels like you when you try on these outfits? Like it's. Yeah, yeah. What makes you feel confident and feel like yourself? I mean, that's, those are some of the questions that I ask myself when I'm trying on clothes.

48:19 You know, it's been a long time though, since I've done that at a mall. I don't really do that. It's usually we like Goodwill. We love Goodwill. Yeah. Thrift shops all the way. But yeah, I think creative expression, yeah. I don't think she felt pressured by Max like Elle. Elle does know how to set boundaries. I feel like if she didn't want to buy anything, I think she would have just, you know, she's not afraid to just say no. But she was having fun, and she realized, you know what? I have just been wearing whatever Hopper has lying around the cabin.

48:55 And I'd like to. I want to explore, actually. Yeah. Explore a little bit. Yeah. It's really sweet. And I love what she landed on. Like. Yeah. Yeah. So. Fun. All right, final question number six. Do you agree or disagree with Nancy Wheeler's push in Season 3 to investigate and write a Hawkins Post article exposing how the mall was hurting small town businesses and storefronts? And do you think that malls are dying out today? Oh, that is a good question. I I mean, I think it's a great idea for an article.

49:38 Yeah. You know, I would have been interested to read that, you know, exposing how like, OK, how are these big corporate malls, like hurting small, you know, mom and pop shops that we grew up with? Yeah. Because I think that's a theme early on in Season 3 where, you know, I think stores are closing down. They're even doing a big sale at Melvald's general store because they're struggling to get enough customers in because everybody's going to the mall. So yeah, I think that that is brilliant. I honestly was a little bit.

50:18 I'm curious what you think. I was kind of confused why the men she was working with at the Hawkins Post didn't even like, they didn't even bat an eye. Like they did not even take that into consideration for one second to the potential of running that article. They were just laughed at her essentially. And I thought that was kind of dumb because it's like, it's a pretty good idea. I don't know. That, I mean, I have a few ideas. I mean, one thing is that that may have been the point. It may have been a great article.

50:52 And so they wanted to laugh it off, you know? Yeah. Like there could be a selfishness of not wanting to let her have that credit or show herself to be more, I don't know, wise or observant than they are. Yeah, I think it could. It could also be just, I mean, I think there's the age gap as well because she's not age wise, she's not their peer. True. Like, she's younger. And so yeah, it's like there's the age gap. There's the fact that she is supposed to be just an intern, right? Like, I'm not sure if she's even supposed to actually write anything.

51:40 Like, I think she's just supposed to get their coffee and do random errands. And so I think it could be a combination of the age gap, the fact that she's an intern and that she was a woman as well. Yeah. And so there could be some sexism. Yeah, I think that if, if Nancy had been like a teenager or even young adult, like more like in today's world than or time frame, then she probably her theme song would be The Man by Taylor Swift. Like hands down. Yeah. That's what I was thinking of when you were saying that.

52:20 But yeah, as far as our malls dying out today, I don't know. I feel torn. Like yes and no. In in some locations, at least we're talking here in, in the United States, yes, but also some are like being revived, like they're remodeling. They're being remodeled. Like we have two malls in Louisville and you know, I actually had to stop in one recently to get in my eye exam done, oddly enough. And the malls, I was pleasantly surprised to see several like younger people, several Gen. Z groups of friends, you know, hanging out at the mall.

53:06 It, it kind of snapped me back to my own time being like in middle and high school because that's what we would do. And the stores seem to be doing well. Anytime one of them closes down, it seems to get quickly replaced by a different business. So I don't know. I'm, I'm inclined to say like I don't know that they're fully dying out. I would say they're not nearly as popular as they once were. But like, we have friends, Erica, Erica and Youssef shout out that like they recently told us that they don't do any online shopping and they're Gen.

53:42 Z just for context. And they exclusively like to go to malls and stores for their shopping. And I think it's more maybe more of like a community type thing or just for the experience and connecting, I don't know. Yeah. Because that, yeah. Because there's something to be said that shopping at least used to be a social experience, right? Like you would actually see other people when you went shopping, but when you're online shopping you don't see people. Yeah, until maybe you greet the Amazon guide delivering your package, you know?

54:20 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, yeah, it's, it's just different. Yeah. So I don't know that they're fully dying out, but not as popular as they once were. But maybe it's something that will be seen as, like a cool and vintage thing to do, and maybe it'll gain. Well, yeah, 'cause like vinyl used to be super, super popular, you know? Yeah, in the 80s and prior. And then for a long while it was like CDs are the big thing. And then 'cause that. Yeah. And then it's like, you know, now you have iPods and streaming and all of that.

54:59 But then now what is becoming more popular again? Vinyls, vinyls. So like we love collecting our vinyls. This is also making me think about we just saw an article this past week that the CEO of Pizza Hut is he is like going to invest a bunch into recreating the Pizza Hut experience to make it feel more like what it was like in the 80s and 90s. Dining in pizza, having the original like the warm the lamp yeah like that are chandeliers like Tiffany style Pizza Hut lamps having the red cups and the salad bars and bringing back Pac-Man arcade games and the yeah 1.

55:46 And it just in the article, it basically just said like he wants to make it more of a fun family nostalgic experience again and make it more of a community type thing. And so and yeah, malls have. I mean, I just connect that to the mall because they got, you know, got the food court thing. My youth group growing up, like we would like genuinely meet up at the local mall after church. Like that was just the thing we would do. And so that everybody could pick whatever they wanted for lunch. And then we'd all get together and hang out, spend time fellowshipping.

56:20 Yeah, that's just something that we did. I don't know if that's as popular now. I. Can't remember. Yeah, where? It's just sad. Like I remember I ate at the food court A a lot growing up. I can't remember the last time I did that. Yeah. Like ate at a mall food court. What was usually your go to? Sparrow. Is that pizza? Yeah, Italian. Yeah, Sparrow pizza, you get those massive slices, Yeah. Also not sponsoring. Also, not sponsoring. Yeah, When I was little it was borrow or maybe like a Wendy's or something, and then as I got older it was Panda.

56:58 Oh yeah, Express. Totally. No one that we're mentioning is sponsoring this, Yeah. Yeah, ours was Chick-fil-A. That was what we would get really excited about. Yeah, but now it's just like, man, I can't remember the last time I ate at them all, you know? I can't either. Yeah. But yeah, anyway, that about wraps it up. Thank you all so much for listening. And if you enjoyed listening, please give us a review or rating wherever you are listening to our podcast as it helps us reach other listeners like you.

57:32 Totally. Our next episode will be another music deep dive in this miniseries and the focus will be on the song Dream A Little Dream of Me covered by Ella Fitzgerald featuring Louis Armstrong. If you have any thoughts about the song or how it was utilizing Stranger Things, we'd love to hear from you. You can contact us at [email protected] or on Instagram at our handle, Camp Nowhere Pod. Thank you all so much again, and we'll catch you on the next one. See y'all. Later.